Cover - basic & total

DMG p43

Melee Attacks:

• Defender's Burden: target has to prove that it has cover.
  If you need to be extremely precise, choose a square the attacker occupies and a square the defender occupies. Draw an imaginary line from every corner of the attacker’s space to every corner of the defender’s space. If even one line is obstructed, the defender has cover. (A line that runs parallel right along a wall isn’t blocked.)
  Superior Cover: Only specific terrain features (such as grates and arrow slits) grant superior cover from melee attacks.

Ranged Attacks:

• Attacker’s Burden: attacker has to prove that it has a clear shot.
  The attacker chooses one corner of a square he occupies, and draws imaginary lines from that corner to every corner of any one square the defender occupies. If none of those lines are blocked by a solid object or an enemy creature, the attacker has a clear shot. The defender doesn’t have cover. (A line that runs parallel right along a wall isn’t blocked.)
  Superior Cover: The defender has superior cover if no matter which corner in your space you choose and no matter which square of the target’s space you choose, three or four lines are blocked. If four lines
  are blocked from every corner, you can’t target the defender.

Took me a bit to find but this is out of the DMG's and makes sense and easy to determine

When posting like this can you reference source or note if it is your interpretation.

Here is another good thread on cover/consealment and how it relates to stealth.

Mike

mikebr99 wrote:

Here is another good thread on cover/consealment and how it relates to stealth.

Mike

Not sure what makes it good, but it is lengthy
It does have several stealth related items in one site, but it's very spread out, so I'll try to summarize.

1. If an action causes you to become unhidden, you remain hidden until the completion of the action. (i.e. if you fire a bow from hidden, the shot would have combat advantage, and then you lose the hidden status)
   
2. You remain unhidden until you've taken another move action. (Then you can attempt another stealth check, or move to total cover, etc.)
   
3. Allies can grant total cover to perform a stealth check, but by themselves, allies cannot be used to maintain hidden status. (a bush or shadow or power would also be needed)
   
4. I don't understand their opinions on Fleeting Ghost and standing stealthed in plain sight. To me, FG just eliminates the -5 penalty to steatth when moving >2 squares in a move action.
   

What I find difficult to understand, until we practice with this a bit in game, is how / when all these stealth checks need to happen, and do you need to make multiple checks in the same action to succeed?
Here's some situations, for a rogue with allies, fighting enemies, who starts in a square that lacks concealment.

Rogue has no powers - 1st level -
1a. rogue moves (can't make a stealth check yet, since he started losing hidden), can use Deft Strike to move 2 (+stealth check if moving to a location with superior cover, such as behind a group of allies) and attack (maybe sneak attack), and lose hidden status after the attack.
1b. rogue moves (can make a stealth check, because he lost hidden in a prior action), can attack with any attack (lose hidden status after attack)

Rogue has chameleon power. Rogue can remain hidden until the end of this turn
2a. Rogue attacks from hidden, rolls Chameleon check - succeed - retains hidden status till end of next turn.
2b. Rogue attacks from hidden, rolls Chameleon check - fails - loses hidden status, must make a move / stealth check to hide again (needs superior cover to get stealth check)
2c. Rogue attacks from hidden, but cannot make a Chameleon check, and must attain hidden status from superior cover

Rogue has Black Arrow stye (but doesn't have Chameleon power maintaining stealth)
3a. Rogue moves behind an ally or bush to get partial cover from a target (and succeeds on a stealth check vs that target, and gains Combat Advantage for a sneak attack shot. Rogue is not hidden, because he lacked superior cover.

Questions:

1. If one person spots you, do you lose hidden status against everything? Do allies not know where you are as well? If an ally spots you, do you lose hidden status?
   
2. Can you keep doing Chameleon checks repeatedly round after round, as each "loss of hidden status" triggers Chameleon steath checks for another round?
   

I would not see an ally as threatening your hidden status. I am not sure how it works for one ememy spotting you- free action rules would suggest they would shout out your location as soon as you are spotted. Not sure of the mechanical impact of this fact.

I don't have the chameleon or black arrow info in front of me as I am at work. Copy the links in if you can. Since mike can't look up black arrow, copy in the text if you could. We discussed Chameleon briefly on Thursday, I think we need to talk about it more.

You blend into your surroundings.
At-Will ✦ Martial
Immediate Interrupt Personal
Trigger: You are hidden and lose cover or concealment against an opponent
Prerequisite: You must be trained in Stealth.
Effect: Make a Stealth check. Until the end of your next turn, you remain hidden if a creature that has a clear line of sight to you does not beat your check result with its Perception check. If at the end of your turn you do not have cover or concealment against a creature, that creature automatically notices you.

If you move into an obscured space or gain cover before making a ranged attack, you can make a stealth check against target's passive perception as a free action to gain combat advantage until the start of your next turn.

they overlap a lot do they not?

for the chameleon, I guess we have to discuss lose versus forfeit your concealment

donkey wrote:

they overlap a lot do they not?
for the chameleon, I guess we have to discuss lose versus forfeit your concealment

Black arrow is only one opponent, whereas chameleon can be all of them. That's the big distinction that I see.
And chameleon is making it so you can't be seen to be attacked, vs. arrow is to just get the sneak attack dmg.